DSX Speaker Placement

My system is 6.1 with the main LR on each side of my projection screen 

at 30 degrees, the surrounds in front of the side walls at 110 and one
surround back wall-mounted about 8 feet directly behind the seating
area.

I have sufficient wall space above, behind and to the right of my LR
mains (the suggested placement for PLIIz height speakers) and room on
the walls at 45 degrees from the center speaker for either height or ear
level placement (suggested positioning for DSX height speakers).
Unfortunately, I have no open real estate at 60 degrees (the suggested
spot for DSX wides).

My receiver is the new AVR-4810ci so I can use both heights and wides if
I wish. What do you suggest? Just going with DSX heights at 45 degrees
and skipping the wide channels, attempting ear-level wides at 45 degrees
or trying both area for wides and heights even if not the ideal
placement. Of course, I could just do the PLIIz heights with no
placement issues at all, but I would like to go with DSX technology
because it also allows use of my back surround simultaneously (which
PLIIz does not).

Thank you,

Scott

 

 

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30 Comments

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    The DSX benefit of the Wides is bigger than that of the Heights and the combination is a big improvement. The tolerances on placement of DSX speakers are about ±10° so you should be fine for both. Try to get the Wides as far away from the Fronts as possible and the Heights as close to the ceiling as possible to increase the separation from the fronts.

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    Dave Sudaria

    I am planning to purchase the Denon AVR-4810. I have the reviewed the speaker placement graph. If i was to do wides, 60 degrees actually hits the left and right side wall and thus closer to the main listening position, perhaps 3-4 feet closer to the main listening position. Should the wides be placed at the widest position, but still in the same plane of the front LCR speakers? Regarding front Heights, does the Elevation 45 degrees mean 15 degrees wider than the Lt and Rt and directly up on the wall, higher than the Lt and Rt speaker?

    Thanks.

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    It's OK if the wide speakers are physically closer. When you run MultEQ, it will measure the distances and apply delay to align the speakers with the others in your system. It's the angle that is important. The Heights should be placed as high up on the front wall as possible and at a horizontal angle that is just sider than the Front L and R speakers.

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    vinod valiveti

    My room is 22x13' with my fronts only 18" away from side walls. Would wides make sense in my setup? I cannot move fronts in because of seating & screen width. Because of the room layout I can place wides only maybe 6" closer to seating than fronts & only 12" away from fronts. Thanks.

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    It sounds like it's not practical to use Wides in your room.  To get the Wides at a ...wide enough angle they would have to be nearly half way down the side walls.  If they are placed too close to the front L and R then they will not be very effective.

  • 0
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    ASIM MAHMOOD

    I have Front L/R speakers on ear level. Can I add wide speakers in ceiling or do they have to be at the same level as front R and L speakers?

     

  • 0
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    ASIM MAHMOOD

    One more question . Do height speakers have to be placed abve the front L&R  in the same plane or can I bring those about two feet closer to the listening position to give them  5 more inch of height? Thanks

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Asim,

    Wide speakers are best placed at the same ear-height level as the front L, C, R speakers.  Heights should be placed on the front wall as high up as possible.

  • 0
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    Audyo

    My front wall / ceiling boundary is 15 deg. up from my MLP.  Are heights still useful?  Is it worth moving them away from the way to increase the angle?

  • 0
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    robert Carman

    Chris,

     

    Judging by your diagram on audyssey dsx is it true the wides are equal distance from the fronts as they are to the TV...basically the fronts being in the middle. I am using DSX with wides and my file is attached....could you please look at it and see what you think of the placment...I have a plenty of room to expand if needed.

  • 0
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    Barry Burke

    In my setup, the WAF* prohibits me from installing front wides at ear-level in the middle of the wall as the specs suggest. I am basically limited to installing the additional set of front speakers in the corners of the room at about 7' high (opposite corners from the rear surrounds) - about 3x further away from the front mains than they are from the center. The room is roughly 18x28, and the fronts are on the 28' wall.

    I'm no audiophile, just looking to do as well as I can in the space I have. Given I really can't put the speakers anywhere else, should I install and set them as Front Wides or Front Heights? I'm using a DENON AVR-3312CI with Multi-EQ - will it be able to reasonably compensate for the less-than-optimal positioning?

    TIA!!

    *WAF=Wife Approval Factor.

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Barry,

    It looks like you can get the required width along the 28' wall.  But, I'm concerned that the elevation will mess with the smoothness of the front soundstage.  So, in this case I would recommend setting them up as Heights.

  • 0
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    Fred

    Hi Chris,

    Another heights vs wides question for an extra pair of speakers. What is the minimum angle you would consider front wides to be the better choice between both options? 45 degrees is the most I can do. Like Barry, I have to work with limited space and WAF-factor :)

    Thanks!

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Fred, 45° would be at the limit of the effectiveness of the Wides.  It also depends on the fronts.  If they are at 30° it makes it difficult to separate the info from the Wides.  

  • 0
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    Greg Fielding

    I have a Denon AVR-4311ci, (which absolutely love btw thanks to audyssey) I am going for the full 11.1 setup. I am successfully able to hit recommended angles for all speakers so far and am in the process of installing the Heights channels. I know DSX will automatically account for volume and delay to make sure the sound gets to me at the right time and volume level. I have noticed that you have stressed that of all things to consider to "get correct" in regards to maximizing the usefulness of DSX is the angle. So my question is kinda tricky. I will have my heights channels at 45 Deg left and right of center but what about the vertical angle? You answer so far is "put them as high as possible. So in theory if if place them on the ceiling I can put them the same distance as the CLR, but what if i place them a few feet closer, which then would require me to angle them down just a bit more which would then give the effect that the sound is actually coming from a relatively higher position. If I don't have a WAF (even though i am married 8 years :) would you recommend I do this? 

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Greg,

    The reason we recommend placing the Heights up high on the front wall is for coverage.  For example, if you have two rows of seating they will both "see" them evenly.  Moving them forward on the ceiling is fine if this is not an issue.

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    Thomas Andersson

    So many angles and distances to keep track of so I'm not sure if I get everything right. Unfortunately, if I've understand everything correctly I might not be able to do a full DSX setup, or even at all with my room size of 3.8m wide by 5.5m deep (system on short side).

    If I adhere to the angles exactly the Wide speakers will end up along the wall almost 2/3 of the distance between the center and MLP in front of the LCR. Same story with High, following the angle it will end up on side wall some distance in front of LCR. There is some room for adjustments, but not much I fear (everything so far is based on a combination of the 'golden triangle' for LR and MLP calculated to match the optimal viewing distance for the screen.

    Looking here for hope and help that maybe there's hope to make this all work. Any suggestions on altering the setup (angels and distances) to make it workable is welcome and appreciated. I've added my planning mockup for the room where everything is to scale to help visualize my dilemma.

    TIA for advice

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    It is critical to have the Wides as you show them at ±60°.  The Wides are at ear height like the fronts.  The Heights are less critical at 45°. Our practical recommendation is to have them on the front wall (above the subs in your case) and as close to the ceiling as possible (pointing down to the listener).

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    Thomas Andersson

    So this setup might actually be workable despite the wides ending up so far ahead? (I saw you mentioned a 10% tolerance on angles so I guess I could move LR in a bit and the wides -5 degrees to get them slightly more back, that should still keep a fair distance between each speaker. As for height the tweeter of each speaker for center, fronts, wides, surrounds and backs (if used) will be within 2 inches of each other in level and centered on ear height. side/back wall mounting of the highs is no problem.

    I was afraid that the lack of width would make the setup impossible but then I guess there's still hope.

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    The distance to the Wides will be compensated by the delays that MultEQ sets. So, yes, there is hope!

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    Joel Locsin

    Hi,

    My front wall is only 10' wide with the 51" Plasma, 2 602's and an SVS sub occupying almost the whole width.  My LP (seat that reclines) is around 7' from the screen as I have a long table behind for rear surrounds.   Putting my FW almost at 60° puts them like 1.5m only from my LP.  Is this close distance fine, or too close that it would be better to move them forward closer to the Front speakers?  The vertical placement of the wides are somewhere half of the front speakers, is this fine too or should they be wider like in a circle?  Thanks.

  • 0
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    Joel Locsin

    BTW, I also used DM302's for the front wides (previously used as my rear surrounds), and put my spare Paradigm Titans as my rear surrounds.  Should I reverse them, since the Titans are somewhat larger than the 302s? 

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Joel,

    It's very typical to have the Wides along the side walls.  Don't worry about the distance, it will be adjusted when you measure with MultEQ.  It's very important to have them at 60°.  I also wouldn't worry about moving the larger speakers to the Wide position.  The bass management in the AVR will take care of redirecting the bass to the sub.

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    Joel Locsin

    Thanks Chris.

    Regarding my question on w/c speakers to use as wides, what I meant was should I use the Paradigm Titans as Wides (beside the front B&W 602's) or should I just use the smaller B&W 302's as wides, so they match the front 602s?  I was just thinking that since the Titans are larger than the 302's, it might be better placing them in front as wides.  Although they don't timbre match w/ B&Ws.

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Joel,

    You should use the 302s as they should be better timbre matched to the 602s.  Hopefully they are not "beside" the fronts, but at ±60° along the side walls.

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    Chad Dickey

    Chris,

    I'm debating buying a receiver with DSX and wanted you opinion on if my setup will work with wides. I sit about 13.5 ft from the screen and the side walls are 6ft from me. It feels like putting wides at 60 will put them way too close to my sitting position. Since my fronts are about 20 (22ish if against the wall) can I cheat further than 10 from 60? Basically is close to 60 what matters most due to the algorithm or is distance from the fronts the primary concern?

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Chad,

    What matters most is the angle.  It needs to be as close as possible to 60°±10°.  The distance will be taken care of by the MultEQ calibration.

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    Len Borowski

    Chris,

    I've got a 18.75' long x 11' wide with 8' ceilings. I'm trying to get front wides working for me. Here's a quick sketch.

    Notes:

    * The listening position is 11.5' from the screen.  I may move it back 6" but for various reasons, 12' is probably my limit.

    * I've got the fronts at 22 degrees and wides at 52 degrees which is in tolerance for fronts and wides

    It seems odd the wides aren't much widerout than the fronts themselves so I'm concerned and want to know if this will work or should I just shift focus to front heights? I have smaller speakers in same family I can use if needed.

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    Nils Eliassen

    Chris,

    For a more mundane setup which I believe is probably common in a small apartment/duplex situation.

    Hopefully this can be answered today as we are cutting this weekend.

    My nephew has a room which is 11x20x8'3"H, which is much wider, 22', than the 11' to the in-wall center.  No side walls, left side has windows, right side extends to back of house.

    Primary Question: W_hen the wides must be installed in the ceiling, is it preferable to resort to highs._

    Recommendation:  Wides over high

    Restrictions: Wides must be mounted in ceilings due to lack of side walls.

    Equipment: Onkyo Tx-NR807 and 3 Pair Polk Rc85i wall-mounted speakers.  Mentioned because they have 8" Drivers and more importantly, swivel-mounted tweeters.

    Center will also be wall mounted, ... 4 kids.

     

    Solutions:

    • HIGH: High on the front wall, not in the ceiling near front wall.

    • WIDE/HIGH: Wide, at a 60 degree angle,  in the ceiling.

    • HIGH:  High in the ceiling, mimicking a more traditional 7.1 solution.

    Any help would be appreciated.

     

    Secondary question, which I believe would also be common:

    Should the surrounds be in the wall or ceiling mounted?

    Assumption: There are no rear surrounds as they are either high/wide.

    Restriction:  The couch will be placed directly against the rear wall, 11' away from front wall.

     

    Solutions:

    Ceiling: Mount in ceiling, flush with rear wall, a few feet wider than fronts and angle tweeters at center of couch.

    WALL: Mount in wall, above 3 feet, and,  few feet wider than fronts and angle tweeters at center of couch.

     

    Thanks in advance.

     

  • 0
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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Nils,

    The Wides need to be at the same elevation as the front L, C, R speakers to be effective.  If that's not possible then you should go with Heights above the front speakers.  The surrounds are better up high to be less localizable.

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