Dual subwoofers, Bass management bug?

Hi Chris,
Is this a bug in calculations by Audyssey?

I think i have read pretty much everything on the net about Audyssey but i seem to be the only one having issues with way too much bass when I use dual subs.
I have a onkyo tx-nr 1007.
I am using a satellite, Atlantic technology 4.5 speaker system + 1 extra NHT Subwoofer.

With all the calibrations and positions I have tested the end result have always been way too much bass.
If I only use the Atlantic sub it sounds pretty ok but if I add an extra to get more headroom and dynamics it sounds crap.
Onkyo Tx-nr 1007 should supports this and should do individual measurements for each sub regarding frequency,distances and volume.
Yesterday I did another experiment by unplugging subwoofer nr 2 from the Tx-nr 1007. (total volume of bass went down)
Tx-nr 1007 was still configured to play with dual subs but one sub was physically disconnected.
When I changed the setting in Tx-nr 1007 from 2 subs to 1 I expected volume to go up on the remaining subs to compensate for the lost volume but nothing changes.
As a matter of fact the onkyo Tx-nr 1007 sets exactly the same volume to each sub no matter if it’s one or two connected, if they are measured together or just one by one.
Is it me misunderstanding something or is this a nasty bug in the calculations for the Onkyo Tx-nr 1007?
Please advise me.
Br JS

 

Comments

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Johan Silversjö

I got this explanation from a member at AVS -Forum.

rickardl

AVS forum Special Member

 

Join Date: Nov 2003

Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Posts: 1,345

Quote:

 

The implementation of Sub EQ HT in the x007-models is only partly done, they left out the part where subs should be pinged together and have the trim levels set correctly.
Basically I think you have two choices: either you would have set the level of subs manually after Audyssey or use a splitter from PRE OUT SW1 to both subwoofers.
Onkyo finally implemented Sub EQ HT in the x008-models.”

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4 Comments

  • 0
    Avatar
    Chris Kyriakakis

    There is no known bug in the calculations.  We have tested this prior to shipping and everything works correctly.  Something in your setup is causing the issue.  Do you perhaps have Double Bass turned on?

  • 0
    Avatar
    Johan Silversjö

    Hi chris,
    Thank you for feedback in this matter.
    No double bass is not activated in the amplifier.
    I have tried to contact onkyo in germany as well but still no response from them.

    According to another forum i got the information that onkyo seems to have half implemented Sub EQ HT in the TX-NR1007, they forgot to ping both subs together after calibration and have the Trim levels set correctly.
    The workaround until Onkyo fixes this bug is to connect both subs at equal distance and connect them with a Y-splitter at the same PRE OUT SW1.
    I am furious since I've spent a whole lot of money to procure an amplifier with proper Sub EQ HT implemented and now it turned out it is flawed. Not to mention all the troubleshooting hours I've spent. Before I procured the amp I got confirmation from German Onkyo-customer service that the amp really should have it. I hope onkyo responds soon and provide a fix for it.
    Chris, If you are in contact with Onkyo, please let them know about this.
    Br JS

  • 0
    Avatar
    Chris Kyriakakis

    It's not "half implemented". This is what they decided to do intentionally.  We provide the algorithm and each company decides how to integrate.  It is not a bug. It was an intentional decision by Onkyo and I am not aware of any plans to change it.  In later models they implemented the dual-ping method. 

  • 0
    Avatar
    Johan Silversjö

    Hi Chris,
    Good to hear it's not related to Audyssey calculations.
    I understand that Onkyo are responsible for how they implement your solutions in their amplifiers and not you guys at Audyssey.
    None the less i disagree with you and call it a severe bug in the amplifier.
    It would be even more pointless by Onkyo if it was made to work that way intentionally.
    First they measure the subs individually and do the calculations, but to no use at all since they can't play together anyways (bass levels when the two subs play together are really way to loud.)
    I have tried to turn down the sub volumes down after calculations but never got it to sound right.

    If I instead use the y-split solution to circumvent this bug, one PRE OUT SUB1 of the two so called "individual outputs" - no point having them individual then?
    Then the following problem occurs: The Audyssey calculations, specifically the delay timings, can no longer be properly applied to the separate subs.
    If you get the chance to talk to Onkyo, please let them know about this bug.
    (I'm still waiting for their response)
    Br JS

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