Crossover frequency

I have an Onkyo TXNR807 receiver - Does Audyssey automatically set the crossover frequency or do I need to do that as part of the speaker setup.

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    Audyssey Labs
    1. Dipole

    2. Boom mic stand is great, but simple (not bulky) camera tripod works too

    3. Preference.  If there is a big room peak below 30 Hz (would happen if one of your room dimensions is about 17') then it is being smoothed out when you let MultEQ apply the high resolution filters.  Try listening for the deepest notes.  They are masked by the big boomy one and revealed when it's gone.  You are probably just used to listening with that single note bass boom and "miss" it now that it's gone.  Give it a while and then decide if you want it back.

    That's the benefit of dipoles.  The null is for the direct sound so that you don't localize the speaker.  They fill the room with diffuse sound that is hard to localize.

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    Michael James

    Thanks again Chris.  For in-walls, should the metal speaker covers be on or off during calibration?  Same question for the front speakers that have the cloth cover. (or does it matter)

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    Audyssey Labs

    Covers should be on during calibration if you plan to listen with them on.

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    Michael James

    When you change a surround switch from Bipole to Dipole, do you have to rerun the XT setup?

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    Audyssey Labs

    Yes.  The response is different at high frequencies.

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    Michael James

    Chris, to test surround, what do you typically use as far as a test disk, music and movies?

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    Audyssey Labs

    We have a big internal list but it's all movies (Master and Commander, WallE, Almost Famous, The Patriot, Open Range, Attack of the Clones, Phantom Menace, many others).  Surround music never really happened.  We have our own recordings of discrete 10.2 content that we use for testing.  But the music industry never really got behind surround in a meaningful way.

    You could look through some of the magazine recommended discs for surround.  Home Theater magazine publishes this every year around this time.  

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    Michael James

    Steve, my couch is up against the back wall, using the in-walls as described above.  I have 12 inches from the back wall to my ears.  Also, what I think may cause a problem is my center channel speaker that is above the fireplace.  Its a Speakercraft, THX Certified Center with adjustable baffles and tweeters.  Right now, its aimed toward the primary listening position and points at my head. To get measurements  7 and 8, the Plasma TV will block the center channel if I do 7 & 8 in front of 4-5-6.

    So, here is the pattern I am thinking of using for Audyssey:

    4 -   5 -  6 (28 inches in front of "1")

    3-7-1-8-2 (Couch- 12 inches from back wall)

     

    *or*

    I could also do 7 & 8, but 7 & 8 will be  6 inches from the back wall like this:

    4 -   5 -  6 (28 inches in front of "1")

    3   1   2 (couch, 12 inches from back wall)

      7    8    (6 inches from back wall)

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    Michael James

    Here again is the photo

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Michael,

    I would go with option 1.

    PS.  Who is Steve? :-)

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    Michael James

    Sorry, trying to do too many things at once :) LOL

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    Michael James

    Chris,

    After the calibrations were done, I went back and checked the db levels using a Radio Shack SPL meter, on Slow, C weighting and the Onkyo PR-SC885 test tones running the XT version of Audyssey .  I found my front right speaker to be 1-2 db below 75 db and the sub,  ranging between 71-73 db (the signal was varying up and down on the same test tone).  typically, should the sub be at 80 db or what are your thoughts?  Everything else was at a solid 75 db

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    Michael James

    Chris,  ..I internationally changed the positive and negative leads to the right rear surround I have and ran the Audyssey test..It does not matter how I wire the speaker, the polarity check never catches it.  Why is this?  I'm running XT on my Onkro PR-SC885

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    Audyssey Labs

    The RS meter also has a tolerance... 1-2 dB is not bad.  If you trust it more than the Audyssey mic (have you calibrated the meter?) then you can adjust according to the meter.  Measuring the sub with an SPL meter can be quite inaccurate because it doesn't look at the frequency range the same way.  

    I wouldn't worry about the polarity of the surrounds.  It has no effect on the Audyssey calculations.  Just make sure the wiring is correct on the amp and speaker.

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    Michael James

    I tried switching the wires on my main speakers too.. They are Focal 918's.  Audyssey XT did not pick up the polarity change on those either.

    All speaker wires are going thru the walls adn I know they extended all the wires.  The amp is buried inside a built in cabinet and I can;t get full access to the back.  I thought maybe I would defeat Audyssey, set all speakers to stereo and try and find a test pattern  in the 40 HZ- 80 Hz range and see if I notice the woofers moving inward vs out and/or listen for distortion.

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    Audyssey Labs

    Polarity inversion doesn't cause distortion so I wouldn't worry about that.  Audyssey does't change the polarity even when it reports a warning for it. So, hopefully you can get to the wiring on the back of the amp and check it.

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    Michael James

    Chris, any theory on why its not picking up the polarity issues on any of my speakers even when I intentionally switch + and - ?

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    Michael James

    Does MultEQ remove the detrimental effect reversed polarity normally has on phantom source localization?

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    Ashim Shivhare

    Hi, I just ran 2EQ on ONKYO RC360 and got the suggested settings...I am having trouble understanding the crossover frequency recommended by it, it suggests me a 60hz for my front 90hz for surround and 100 for my center and my front and surround speakers(MLT-2) have a frequency response of 110hz to 20khz and my center has a freq response of 130hz to 20kHZ...should I still use recommended by audyssey 2EQ?

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    Audyssey Labs

    @Michael: Onkyo seems to have dropped the Audyssey polarity checking from recent models. Considering that it can be the source of confusion, I can't blame them.  The simplest way to check is with a batter across the speaker wire.  If the woofer moves out when the battery is connected to the + wire then all is fine.  MultEQ never reversed the polarity even when it found it to be opposite.  It simply gave a warning (and still does on most AVRs).

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    Audyssey Labs

    @Ashim: The roll off frequency is greatly affected by the room and the distance from the walls.  That's why it's important to measure and not go by the theoretical specs.  I recommend you leave the values as they were found.

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    Steven D

    Hi Chris, 

    I just purchased a Denon 4311 receiver. I'm currently running a 5.1 setup with Mirage OMD-15s as the fronts, OMD-5s as the surrounds, a OMD-C1 as a center, and a HSU ULS-15 for a sub. After running Audyssey, it set the fronts to large with a crossover of 40, center at 90, and surrounds at 100. I changed the fronts to small, but I was unsure if I should change the crossover of the fronts to 80, or maybe 60? 40 seems low, would that be better handled by the sub? Also, should I make any changes to the crossovers for the surrounds and center?Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! 

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    Evangelos Lakatzis

    Hi Chris,

    First of all let me wish you merry christmas!

    I have a 7.1. system with the following specifications: Dennon 2310 AV reveiver (used (a) as amp for center/surround speakers and; (b) as pre-amp in combination with a Xindak XA8550 power amp for front speakers only), 7 Audio Epilogue Issa speakers (2 front tower speakers, 1 center speaker and 4 bookshelf surround speakers)  and a Velodyne CHT-12Q Sub. At this point let me say that the center/surround speakers were custom made by the manufacturer for me and have the same mechanism/specs with the front (tower) speakers, the only difference being that the center/surround speakers have - obviously - significantly smaller cabins that the front (tower) ones (you can find a picture/tech specifications chart at this link  http://www.audioepilog.hr/issa.html)

    I have ran Audyssey in my Denon but I received some quite peculiar results as for the crossover. More specifically the crossover frequency for the front speakers is 150hz, for the center 40Hz and for the surround 60Hz.

    The peculiarity (to my mind) is that Audyssey identifies the center/surround speakers as pretty capable at handing LFE (40/60HZ crossover) and when it comes to the (same mechanism and larger cabin) front speakers, Audyssey seems to ascertain that they have almost no LFE capability (150 Hz is more appropriate for tiny satellites, is it not so?)

    Any ideas on why this is happening? Also any suggestions on how should I correct that? (i.e. I know that lowering the crossover suggested by Audyssey is not advisable..)

    Thank you in advance and apologies for my long mail.

    Vangelis

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    Evangelos Lakatzis

    An update on my question:

    I have noted in Chris comments how important speaker placement is. I noticed that my fronts were in a distance of approximately 50cm from the front wall so I pushed them back to 20cm; also I have skipped measurement of "B" front speakers in the Audyssey menu and I have disabled the "B" speakers settings in my Denon (since no "B" speakers are present). The crossover  result was really good:

    Front speakers 80HZ 

    Center 40Hz

    Surround 60Hz

    Back Surround 80HZ

    I have raised the crossover of the center/back surround to 80Hz and right now I believe I am extremely pleased with the result. I hope the above are helpful to anyone facing the same problem.

    Happy new year everyone!

    Vangelis

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    Audyssey Labs

    @StevenD: The proximity of speakers to the walls can greatly affect their low frequency roll off.  So, it's possible that the fronts were found to roll off near 40 Hz.  In any case, moving the crossover up as you did is fine.  With MultEQ XT32 there is no added resolution in the subwoofer filters as there is with MultEQ XT and MultEQ.  The XT32 filters in the satellites and sub have very high resolution already.

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    Audyssey Labs

    Vangeli, good to hear that things improved.  Placement is very important as you already found out!

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    Sameer Dass

    Hi Chris,

    I recently purchased an Onkyo TX-NR609 Amp and Energy (Klipsch) CF 50 5.1 speakers setup for my home theater. I ran the Audyssey calibration for my room, as per the advice in the owner's manual - 2EQ process.

    The query which I would like to ask is that the Audyssey calibrated the crossover for my Fronts, Center and Surrounds all at 40 Hz. I also have 2 subwoofers connected to the system, one a 10" Energy subwoofer from my 5.1 package and another Cerwin Vega one from my previous 5.1 package.

    The Energy CF-50 speakers have a frequency range of 39Hz -20 Khz. Even though Audyssey has calibrated the frequency range correctly, I find the sound a little weak on the midrange and lowbass. Do you recommend my upping this crossover setting to 60 Hz / 80 Hz..? Will my subs be able to generate better sound than the fronts if they are crossed over at 80 Hz instead of 40 Hz.

     

    Look forward to your advice.

     

    Thanks!

    Sameer

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Sameer,

    It's perfectly fine to move the crossover up a little as you suggest.  However, since the processor in the 609 is not powerful enough to run the higher versions of MultEQ, you won't get an additional improvement in the subwoofer filter resolution. 2EQ doesn't apply any subwoofer correction.  It's hard to predict if you will get better performance in the 40-80 Hz range without measurements.  Why not try it?

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    Darryl

    I run a 5.1 system with 5 NHT SuperZero 2.0s, a Cadence CSX-12 Sub powered by an Onkyo 709. In my room MultEQ XT set all 5 of my speakers @ 80hz (THX). I fully understand that MultEQ XT came up with those measurements based on how the SZs are actually working in my room, and your usual response is to leave the settings where Audyssey set them, and that's fine. 

    But my question is regarding "over-driving" the 4.5" drivers with material that they aren't best suited to reproduce. It seems to me that raising the x-over to 120hz would  help relieve the the SZs from unwanted bass, which in turn would allow them to play louder and cleaner. My sub is in the front left corner of the room, so localization is of no concern. 

    Also, if you were me, and were going to change the XO for all five speakers, would you go with 90, 100 or 120hz (my only choices)?

     

    Thoughts?

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Darryl, I really don't think there is a danger of overdriving the woofers if you leave them at 80 Hz.  It's perfectly fine to move the crossover up, but I think 120 Hz may end up causing you to localize the sub very now and then.  

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