Mics

I have calibration Mics that came with my Velodyne DD`15's subs. This mic seems to be much more substantial (Professional) than the one that came with the Denon AVP-HD1HDCI. Can I use this mic for the Audyssey calibration? And if so will it give better results?

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28 Comments

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Mic performance has nothing to do with how substantial the mic is. It has to do with how the mic is calibrated. There is a very precise calibration curve in the AVP that makes the Audyssey mic perform like a professional mic. Using any other mic will give you totally wrong results because the calibration will be incorrect.

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    Myrtle1

    I bought an Integra that comes with the audyssey mic but its not long enough.  I'm around 5-10 feet short......What to do?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    You can extend the cable as described here.

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    Myrtle1

    If I hire a pro, does the pro kit come with a longer cable?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    The pro kit comes with a different microphone and much longer cables.  Benefits of Pro calibration are described here.

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    Myrtle1

    When will the Integra 80.3 Pro Kit be available?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Integra has informed us that it will be in "early March".  We don't have further information beyond that.

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    jiohn

    from your sub level response just minutes ago, i am hoping you're still around for another Q.  Having just completed the treatment of my HT room/Tiki Bar (using 1" Owens Corning 702 ), I am about to re-run my Audyssey MultiEQ sound calibration test with a Samson R31S mic (the one that came with my Marantz 7002 broke).  It appears from your comments above that It would be a better use of time asking "The Google" where I can find one and order it, yes?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    No need for the Google, just email techsupport@audyssey.com to purchase a replacement mic.  Using any other mic will automatically yield wrong results because the calibration curve for the Audyssey mic is hard coded inside the AVR.

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    jiohn

    Granted appearances can be deceiving, but I am trying to wrap my head around the notion that the mic that came with my Marantz 7002 - about 1" in diameter and looks like something that came out of a kids cereal box and cost about $.50 to produce - would do a better job than a Samson professional mic? 

    Now you said the calibration curve for the Marantz mic is hard coded inside the AVR.  Is that perhaps another way of saying, "we have calibrated the AVR to compensate for the inferior qualities of the mic that came free with the unit.  To use a superior mic would therefore yield wrong results because the unit has no way of making the distinction and still thinks you are using the 'kids cereal box' mic?" 

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    jiohn

    one other related question.  If I were to obtain a brand new SR7005 could I use the mic that comes with it to calibrate my SR7002 or are the mics model specific?  My guess would be no I couldn't since the SR7005 comes with MultiEQ XT.  Am I correct?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Yes exactly: the Marantz mic is calibrated to perform much better than it's "appearance".  That calibration is specific to that mic.  Applying it to another "better" mic would make it much worse.  

    However, now that you mention it, the 7002 used a Marantz made mic (to Audyssey spec).  But, that's not a mic that we can replace.  It has to come from Marantz directly.

    The newer 7005 comes with the Audyssey mic that uses a different calibration curve from the mic that came with the 7002. So the bottom line is: you have to use the mic that comes with your AVR.  It has nothing to do with MultEQ vs MultEQ XT, but simply with the acoustical calibration of the mic.

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    jiohn

    Thanks, so I contacted Marantz and the quoted me $75 for the replacement.  I am not sure if you have seen the mic that came with the SR7002 circa 2007, but to describe it as cereal box aka mickey mouse, would be a compliment.  It's a 2" black plastic circular disc appx. 3/4" high.  It looks nothing like the current mic pictured below. 

    This one - described as an AUDYSSEY ACM1 H - is only $40 (new) on ebay.  Will this work?  By the way, Marantz told me Audyssey made the mic and that it has Audessey written on the front like the one above.  My mic did not have Audyssey written on it anywhere, and if it did would need a magnifying glass to read it since the mic is so miniscule. 

    I just confirmed with Marantz parts (by having them open a box) that the mic is identical to the one pictured above.  Well, maybe I'll fork out some extra dough for something as sleek, stylish and functional as the above mic.  Here's the problem as I see it and my question.  The design of my mic is so different won't it have its own acoustical signature?  How can I get the same results from two radically diffeent mics?

    I am beginning to suspect that some bozo over at Magnolia swapped out the mics and I have been usuing the wrong mic all this time.  I don't know if that makes me depressed or excited. Depressed because i have been living with inferior sound for 3+ year or excited in that it will "feel" like I have a brand new system.  Speaking of which can you put an appx. dollar amount on the kind of improvement I will experience with properly calibrated system?

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    jiohn

    sorry embedded pic did not take.  see attachment below.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    ACM1H is the new Audyssey mic that everyone switched to eventually.  But in 2007 Marantz was not using the Audyssey mic.  You have to use the original because the calibration curve in the Marantz is totally different.

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    jiohn

    hmmmm... well Marantz tells me that my replacement is the ACM1 which evolved into into its current form, the ACM1H, and  replaced the previous mic and calibration system used prior to Audyssey.  Indeed the tech at Marantz correctly identified the mic that (I thought) came with the unit as the mic that was used in pre-Audyssey models, so for an entirely different calibrating system.    So, I was correct - someone did swap out the mic - it was an open box from what I remember, so entirely possible. 

    What's interesting I find - and I think you will as well - and I would like your thoughts on this - is why it performed so well since its design/acoustical signature is so different and the calibration curves were all wrong.  The professional mics I tried either yielded noise error or  nothing ("non" designation in Auto setup results window) or terrible sound.   The old mic performed flawlessly in over a dozen calibrations, never once had to go above the first level of chirps for any speaker, never had a noise error or a "non" designation for any speaker.  And its distance in feet from listening position to speakers was always spot on.  And to my ears my system sounded really good and far better than when I had tried to do it manually. 

    I am dying to see how improved it bcomes with the correct mic.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    The ACM1 was the first Audyssey mic produced.  It is no longer made and was replaced in later model AVRs with the ACM1H.  The two are not interchangeable.  I believe Marantz still has ACM1 replacement mics for their customers.  The reason that the "professional" mics didn't work is because inside the Marantz are settings for the ACM1 mic.  These settings will make any other mic completely useless regardless of how expensive it is.

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    jiohn

    Yes, thanks for  succinctly summarizing what we know to be true.  And ACM1 replacement mics are in fact available from Marantz for $75.  However, there are better deals out there.  I just purchased one at Amazon (new) for $20 including shipping.

    Yes, I understand why the professional mics performed so poorly, but I don't understand how the MRAC mic I have been using the last 4 years has performed so well considering how different in design it is with different settings.  I have my theories , i.e. MRAC settings, while not identical, were close enough to ACM1 settings that it was able to pull it off , but what are your thoughts on this?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Be careful about the ACM1 mics you find on the internet.  Last year we found a large batch of counterfeit mics that were copying the design.  It's very flattering that Audyssey mics are considered important enough to be copied, but the performance was not correct.  The sign to look for is the connector.  If it's a stereo minijack connector on the ACM1 then it's a counterfeit mic.  The connector on the Audyssey mic is a mono connector.  Please send me the link for Amazon and I can take a look.  

    No idea about the MRAC mic.

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    jiohn

    thanks for the input and advice.  I had already inquired with them as to what kind of connector it had (3.5mm TS or TRS) as it is not pictured.  But another one on ebay which does have a pic (see link below) showing what appears to be a 1/4" TS.  If the other end is hard wired to the mic then I would need an adapter since my Marantz mic input is 3.5mm.  BTW, Does it matter if its TS or TRS?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/160762200518?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

    Here's the amazon link FYI

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QY5SYI/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Yes, it matters.  TRS is stereo and therefore fake.  TS is mono and is the real thing.  But, we are talking about 1/8" (3.5 mm) minijack. Not 1/4".  The one pictured in your link seems to be the correct 1/8". 

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    jiohn

    So, irrespective that the fake ones are stereo, is it pertains to Audyssey calibration test, is there any other reason why it matters if there is one or two black (or white) bands on the connector that is inserted into the Marantz SR7002?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    I don't quite understand the question.  If you have a mic with a stereo connector then it's the wrong mic made by someone trying to rip people off.

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    jiohn

    OK - emotion can prevent us sometimes from seeing the forest through the trees - let me rephrase the question:

    What is it about a stereo connector that disqualifies it?  Lets say I had a factory authorized and produced ACM1 mic, but due to the "I'll chew anything I can get my teeth around" nature of my bulldog, I find the connector gone (later found in my dogs... well you get the idea).  Now I have an old headphone set in a drawer with a 1/8" connector and decide to use it, soldering the wires from the ACM1 to it.  And, being a headphone jack, it naturally has a dual banded stereo connector.  Why, without getting overly technical, would it not work?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    There is no technical problem with a stereo connector.  Assuming it was properly soldered and grounded. Of course, one of the channels would not be used as there is only one mic capsule (mono).  In this case, it is simply an identifier of a fraudulent product.

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    jiohn

    thanks for answering the q.  Because the aforementioned example was not a "story" well it was a story in the true sense of the word, but a true story.  That's why I am in the market for a mic.  I was wondering if it was the jack I was using or the mic or both on why I kept getting error messages during calibration.  I have since learned that it was the mic, and thanks to your answer, only the mic.  The stereo jack has been acquited and cleared of all charges.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    The defense rests.

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    jiohn

    well done counseler!

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