audyssey setup my mains at -12db

Good morning,

 

My setup is comprised of 3 emotiva UPA-1 and 2 UPA-2. Until last month they were powering Paradigm cinema CT110 speakers and audyssey always calibrated at around -5 db .

 

Now i replaced the Paradigm by the Klipsch  RF-52 and RC52 series which are more sensitive  and now audyssey calibrate them at -12db and even then the sound level is over 75db close to 79db.

 

I have no clue as to how to bring down the trim to about half of it

 

Any Clues?

 

Alain

 

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26 Comments

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    martinodacosta

    I have the same speakers as you with the same problem. Super sensative speakers dont work very well with Audyssey regarding automatic speaker volume controle.

    The best thing you can so is measure all you speakers with a SPL meter or lower the source content/ master volume.

     

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    Alain Pilon

    I tried to measure with a spl  but cannot get them to lower down enough i hit -12db on the onkyo 706 and get stuck at 79 db

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Alain,

    This is not an Audyssey problem.  The purpose of reference calibration is to bring each speaker to the proper SPL level and to match it to the other speakers.  For film content the required reference calibration is 75 dB when measured using the internal test noise in your receiver.  This can be set manually or automatically, but only if the AVR gives you enough range.  If the required level cut is more than 12 dB then you won't be able to achieve reference volume.  This can happen if your speakers are close to the listening position and/or they have high sensitivity.

    The solution is simple: you can use an SPL meter to make sure that the levels of the speakers are the same.  If they are not, then make adjustments to make them the same.  After that, turn down the master volume (not the trims) until the measured noise is 75 dB on the SPL meter (C-weighted, Slow).  Write down that master volume because it is now your new reference listening setting (instead of the 0 dB setting normally used).

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    Alain Pilon

    Good evening Chris ,

     

    So if i understand you correctly, i am somewhat penalized by having speakers that have high sensitivity in term of using audyssey.

    Will the next version of audyssey will take this into consideration? Would i be able to bypass that limitation by switching to an AVR that can use audyssey pro?

     

     

    Alain

     

     

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Alain,

    Perhaps my explanation was not clear enough.  The reference level required is determined by a Standard.  In order to meet it with your speakers you have to turn their level down.  This could be because they are very sensitive or because they are close to the listener or both.

    However, the amount of "turning down" that the AVR allows is only 12 dB.  In your case you need more.

    This has *nothing* whatsoever to do with Audyssey.  You will have the same issue whether you use Audyssey or not.  

    The solution is quite simple as I outlined above.  

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    Peter Gwee

    Hi Chris, with the solution given by you for the manual level adjustment, wouldn't dynamic EQ fail to work as intended? Is there any solution to that?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Peter,

    It will work just fine because it knows that the offsets have been made.  You just need to remember that the new reference volume is no longer at 0 dB.

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    Peter Gwee

    Hi Chris, just to confirm. Assume my center channel is at 77.5db, surround left with 76db and surround right at 75.5db all with trims of -12db. Is it true that I just adjust the trims such that all channels read 77.5db and then reduce the main volume by -2.5db from 0db and use it as reference?

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    Peter Gwee

    My AVR is TX-NR5008, I cannot output the test signal at the preset level of 0db due to THX specification unless I use a calibration dvd or bluray.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Edit: sorry Peter, I misspoke in my earlier (now deleted) comment.  

    You are right in your original comment. Calibrate all to 77.5 and then turn down the master volume to get to the 75 dB reference.  The internal noise signal is –30 dBFS and that is what you should be using.  

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    Peter Gwee

    Hi Chris, I think you got wrongly? The trims were at their max at -12db at which the SPL were measured for the speakers. Actually I should apply more trims for the center channel by 2.5db and L surround by 1 db but I can't as it is already maxed out at -12. Test tones are defaulted to 75db at master volume 0db (THX). Seems like I'm stuck unless I go manual with a test disc which dynamic EQ might not work?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    You can still use the internal test noise.  No need for a test disc.  Just adjust the trims so that all your speakers match the loudest one (not the softest as I incorrectly stated earlier--now corrected above).

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    Peter Gwee

    Hi Chris, does the dynamic EQ really still work since it's taking 0db as the reference point and not -2.5db in my case?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Yes, it still works because it knows that the trims have been changed.

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    Peter Gwee

    Thanks Chris :)

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    Alain Pilon

     After that, turn down the master volume (not the trims) until the measured noise is 75 dB on the SPL meter (C-weighted, Slow).  Write down that master volume because it is now your new reference listening setting (instead of the 0 dB setting normally used).

     

    Chris i tried the last part without success when you mean to turn down  the master volume until the measured noise is 75db i cannot do that with the internal pink noise of the receiver so do i just play a movie and adjust the noise to 75db

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    Peter Gwee

    Hi Chris, regarding the subwoofer level, the level seems to be way off 75db. Do I still need to raise it to 75db?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    SPL meters are not really suitable for subwoofer level calibration.  MultEQ uses a different method to find the level.  I would suggest changing it by the same amount that you change the other speakers that are out of range for the AVR.

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    Peter Gwee

    "Chris i tried the last part without success when you mean to turn down  the master volume until the measured noise is 75db i cannot do that with the internal pink noise of the receiver so do i just play a movie and adjust the noise to 75db"

    Hi Chris, I have the same issue with Alain Pilon as mentioned.Any ideas?

     

    What type of method does audyssey actually does to calibrate the subwoofer level? Is it really necessary to use a Realtime Analyzer to do that?

    I have currently disconnected the center and surrounds to the XPA-5 amplifier and just ran it off the onkyo TX-NR5008 and all is well. (L ch -11db, C ch -11.5db, R ch -10db, L SR -11db and R SR -11db). Doing it manually seems to disrupt the overall soundstage.

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    Alain Pilon

    Hi Peter

     

    do you mean that you disconnect the speakers from the XPA-5 to connect them to your onkyo and then rerun Audyssey?

     

    Do you get the same spl level once you reconnect everything to the XPA5?

     

    Alain <

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    Peter Gwee

    Hi Alain, the left and right mains were running off the XPA-5 whereas the center and surrounds were off the onkyo 5008. As the onkyo 5008 was rated lower in power as compared to the emotiva amp, the klipsch speakers which I have can be level balanced at 0db with trims of Left ch -11db, Right ch -10.5db, center -11.5db and surrounds -11db.

    Running off the XPA-5 with all speakers will exceed the trim limit fir the center and surrounds due to the near distance from my listening position.

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    Peter Gwee

    "Chris i tried the last part without success when you mean to turn down  the master volume until the measured noise is 75db i cannot do that with the internal pink noise of the receiver so do i just play a movie and adjust the noise to 75db"

     

    How do we solve that other than using a disc calibration program since the THX certified receiver keeps the test tone at 0db regardless main volume level changes?

     

    "What type of method does audyssey actually does to calibrate the subwoofer level? Is it really necessary to use a Realtime Analyzer to do that?"

     

    Any better methods other than changing it by the same amount that I change the other speakers that are out of range for the AVR. (Bass sounds boomy after doing that)

     

     

     

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Peter,

    You have to use a disc with test tones so you can turn the volume down.  From your numbers above you are very close (within a couple of dB) so this not something to worry about greatly.  The most important part is on: the room correction filters and these are not affected by the level.

    Audyssey uses a proprietary method that analyzes the frequency response to estimate the level.  It sounds like you have a preference for lower bass than reference.  That can only be set by you to your own preference.  It's not a matter of calibration.

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    Peter Gwee

    Guess I will just hook up all my speakers to my XPA-5 again and just use the levels given by audyssey. Thanks for the help Chris.

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    Nick March

    Hi Chris.

    I have just changed out my Rotel rsp 1570 and multeq room equalizor for an onkyo 5508 processor with xt32.

    On my old pro with xt it measured the mains, on pro calibration, to -1. LCR.

    Now with the onkyo and xt32 it measures the down at -12db, is this extra drop in trim down to the fact the xt has a -10 db drop? Else I am confused as power Amps and speaker positioning has remainineed the same.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Nick,

    It's not MultEQ XT that has a drop in level.  MultEQ XT creates filters that allow up to 9 dB of boost.  To prevent clipping, the original silver Sound EQ box would drop the signal by 9 dB and so the trim settings in the pre-pro ahead of it would need to be set to make up for that.  In the later version of the Sound EQ (the black front) we included the makeup gain in the box itself.

    It appears that your speakers and/or listening distance are such that the 5508 is running out of level adjustment range.  Do your amps have any ability to turn down the overall level?

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