Dynamic EQ and Reference Level

What is Dynamic EQ and reference level?

Have more questions? Submit a request

184 Comments

  • 0
    Avatar
    C F

    I'm confused on one point.  I quote:

    0 dB (Film Ref): This is the default setting...

    15 dB: ... material that is mixed at very high listening levels ...

    10 dB: ... content ... that is usually mixed at 10 dB below film reference.

    So 10 dB is for content mixed at 10dB *below* film reference, while 15dB is for content that it is mixed at a "very high listening level", presumably *above* film reference.  If I'm reading this right, perhaps they should be labeled "-10dB" and "+15dB".  Is it possible something got reversed when that guide was typed up?  I think my question is the same as what "mario abb" was trying to ask.  I understand everything posted here except this one place where it seems the sign is inconsistent.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Sergey

    Why after options Audyssey recession on high frequencies if to compare with Pure Audio? It would not be desirable them to lose!

    Somewhere read that the Mode of listening THX with switched off Re-EQ allows to choose curves Audyssey or Audyssey Flat without a blockage of high frequencies! Receiver ONKUO 608, front Fokal 714 +центр+сабвуфер I can't choose modes of listening THX as I use only front.Re-EQ isn't involved. The crossover cut has put on 80Hz (THX) though Audyssey has defined them 40Hz. Before adjustment 2EQ has lowered high on-2db, and after has added to 0. A sound выравнился. Before adjustment 2EQ - what to do? (To put on 80Hz, to disconnect Dynamic EQ, to disconnect Audyssey, wanted that the sound was without a blockage of high frequencies)?

  • 0
    Avatar
    omkar

    hi chris,  my onkyo 607 does not show the volume the in db, it has numbers from 1-79    so what is  reference volume level for it? 

  • 0
    Avatar
    Simsaladim

    Hi chris!,

     

    I've got the denon 4311 with the XT32 equalizer.

    I use Dyneq and I love what it does, but when I use it, my subwoofer is boosted to a level where I can start to localize it. I use an 80 Hz. crossover for all sattelites.

    Do you have some advice for me?. Just turn down the sub level?.

    Thanks,

    Dimitri.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Rickard L

    Just to add that you can use THX Cinema with Audyssey MultEQ, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

    You don't need to use THX Loudness Plus, which is THX' loudness technology ,with THX Cinema.

    In Onkyo, just set "Preserve THX Settings" to No and don't enable THX Loudness Plus.

    Chris, do you know what THX CInema (used with Dynamic EQ and not THX Loudness Plus) does with the surround channels?

    I find that it softens and diffuses the surrounds a bit which is good for me because I have direct radiating surround speakers aimed at my MLP. Is it the Timbre matching?

  • 0
    Avatar
    greg pak

     

    Hi Chris,

    could you verify this for me?  - a limitation of MultEQ XT.

    *-----------------------------------------------*

    Another thing that capture my attention was that if you change your speaker settings after the Audyssey set up you will not be able to activate or select Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, but to me this is a limitation of MultEQ XT and its something that doesn't happens on some models like the Onkyo TXNR818.

     

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AEXY0HQUDVMB6/ref=cm_pdp_rev_more?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview#RGADXJNYJ2MGH

    *---------------------------------

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    Hi DeWayne, what test signal are you using to measure this?  The internal test noise (band limited pink noise) in the NAD is at –30 dBFS and should be producing 75 dB SPL at the main listening position after you have run and stored the trims calculated by MultEQ.  

    I see what you mean about the offset.  Yes, the Dyn Offset is the same as the Dynamic EQ Reference level offset mentioned at the top of this thread.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    The LFE setting is not related to reference offset.  It is there to account for decoders that may or may not be adding the +10 dB in the LFE track.  Dolby has always required that this +10 dB be added upon decoding to bring the LFE track back to proper level.  But some older DTS content (music) did not require it on authoring and so AVR makers provide a way to not add it on decoding.  That's what the –10 dB selection is for.

    The reference level offset is related to Dynamic EQ and the settings are described in the first post of this thread.  If your AVR doesn't have it, you can achieve the exact same thing by lowering the AVR's input level for the source you are using.  Almost all AVRs give you this capability in the Setup Menu.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Brodey Dover

    I'm amazed that people think this technology is new. It's a minor variance of Bose's Dynamic EQ from 50 years ago...I'm also amazed that people don't understand how it works. Look at the response of human ear at different loudness levels. Looks familiar? Click LOUDNESS on your old stereo amp, bam, "Audyssey".

  • 0
    Avatar
    Mark M

    My Marantz AV Receiver has the following settings for Dynamic EQ... can you relate these settings to your db guides ... 0,10,15,5

    Off

    On

    Light

    Medium

    Heavy 

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    It's not possible.  Denon has different firmware for some products in different regions and it's not possible to load firmware from another region.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Raanan

    thanks for the prompt response :)

    can you please clarify what happen with Dynamic EQ once I raise the volume to 0db or more?

    will it still try to touch the balance?

  • 0
    Avatar
    Markus

    Hi Chris,

     

    you wrote "Content such as pop/rock music that is mixed at higher than film reference levels needs less bass boost. "

    Wouldn't a recording that was mixed at high levels need more loudness compensation than a recording that was mixed at lower levels when both are reduced to the same loudness level with the master volume control?

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    Yes there is a reason: testing the frequency response with test tones and an SPL meter is a highly inaccurate method.  No conclusions can be drawn from it.  To get a true idea of the response you have to use sweep tones and take multiple measurements with a calibrated mic and then average them.   

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    Hi CF,

    No, it's not a typo.  It's more complicated than just reference level... It also has to do with how much dynamic range compression is used in creating the content.  So, I would just treat the numbers as just labels.  The 15 dB offset is for highly compressed (in dynamic range) content that is mixed at high overall levels (e.g. hip hop music).

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    It's a little more complicated than that.  The Dynamic EQ loudness adjustment also depends on the dynamic range in the content.  A loud hip hop song, for example, has practically no variation between the softest and loudest content.  It's all compressed to sound as loud as possible.  This is not the case for film content that has a very wide dynamic range.  So, turning the master volume down to –10 dB on the AVR would make Dynamic EQ apply correction to the hip hop song that is not needed.  It's still much louder (perceptually) than film content even at that volume setting.

  • 0
    Avatar
    omkar

    hi chris,  when i run Audyssey calibration on my onkyo 607 do i need to turn up the volume to some set level or does it not matter?    one otherthing.  what do i set the LFE to on my amp (120hz or 90hz)?  if my wharfdale sw150 can only do 85hz      thanks :)

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Dimitri,

    80 Hz is typically below the localization limit for human hearing.  Most likely, the cause is rattles or vibration that excites higher frequencies.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Wayne Liptrot

    Hi Chris, General Question - can you comment on
    (I) whether THX listening modes are advantageous if using MultEQ XT, Dyn. EQ, Movie Profile - for Movies? It seems Audyssey uses many of the THX principles, so is this double processing of similar things? I have tried both, and currently select Straight Decode without extra processing for the HD sound from blu-rays.

    (ii) All Channel Stereo - and why I saw you were dead against it? How does it do what it does?

    Thanks,

    Wayne.

  • 0
    Avatar
    greg pak

    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for your quick response.

    "a limitation of MultEQ XT: after the Audyssey set up you will not be able to activate or select Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume" was for Denon avr3313.

    How about on Denon avr3313? Is this allowed or not?

  • 0
    Avatar
    robert Carman

    So basically tnis is how it works:

     

    0 Db = reference

    10 Db = louder

    15 Db = loudest

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    @Jeff, Yes this makes sense and I understand the concern. There are several places in the chain where things can be messed up. Authoring with the wrong dialnorm setting, decoding incorrectly, who knows... The only thing we can check for is the internal test tone.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    This technology was developed exactly because those so-called Loudness controls did not work.  In most cases they made things worse.  The main reasons they didn't work were:

    They were based on the wrong curves. Most loudness controls were based on data collected at Bell Labs by Fletcher and Munson in the 1930s. While these curves characterized the effect, the measurements themselves were imprecise, due to the primitive equipment that was used at that time.

    They were mimicking the curves themselves. In order to hear content played back at a different volume than the original, loudness compensation controls should have been based on the difference between the curves of the reference level and the playback level.

    No input level calibration was available. There was no way to know the original mix level of the program material. Thus, there was no starting point to find the difference between the original level and the playback level.

    No output level calibration was available. Varying electrical gain after the volume control, speaker sensitivity, and room acoustics made it impossible to determine the exact output level. These factors all conspired to make a particular volume control setting to be reproduced with very wide variations.

    Loudness controls were not dynamic. For example, an orchestra typically plays at 100 dB SPL on peaks and at 50 dB SPL during soft passages. When the volume is turned down by 20 dB for home listening, the peaks and soft passages require different loudness correction. More compensation is required when the starting level is low and attenuated than when high and attenuated. This lack of content-based dynamic control also added to the boomy bass of earlier loudness systems.

    More info on what Dynamic EQ does about these problems here.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Adam Brown

    Thanks for the quick response!

     

    Amazingly the socks idea seems to work! Does this mean I have a faulty sub? I don't particularly like the idea of having socks stuffed in the port hole!

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    Sorry Rob, but I will have to disagree on this one.  It's one of those audiophile myths that should be put to bed (there are others, but don't get me started :-).  The acoustical problems in Antonio's room will be there whether the content he plays is a monophonic recording of Caruso from the early 1900s or Transformers 3.  The reason it's called "room correction" is because the room is causing acoustical problems!  

  • 0
    Avatar
    Audyssey Labs

    Yes, Dynamic EQ will operate above 0 dB on the master volume to preserve the reference balance.

  • 0
    Avatar
    Markus

    If something is mixed on a system with reference level 10dB higher than movie reference that mix will play 10dB softer when played back on a system that is calibrated to movie reference. In order to restore spectral balance Dynamic EQ would need to boost bass and highs but changing Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset does the opposite, it applies less boost. This makes me think it assumes music is mixed at lower reference levels and not at higher reference levels than movies?

  • 0
    Avatar
    CÜNEYT OCAKLILAR

    Hi,

    I did a test with some test tones (31.5Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 125Hz, 160Hz, 200Hz) while my crossover level was 80Hz; with Audyssesy off, Audyssesy on-Dynamic EQ off, Audyssesy on-Dynamic EQ on. I used a SPL meter to measure the levels. I wonder why I got low levels especialy with 160Hz while the other fequency levels were acceptable? Is there a special reason for this?

    I have attached a graphic image.

  • 0
    Avatar
    C F

    Hmm, thanks Chris.  Are these labels at least in a logical order?  In particular, if I am listening at a very low volume level, can I assume that 0db will have the strongest effect, and increasing db settings will have weaker and weaker effects?

    It's obvious that a difference between mixing and listening volume levels would require frequency equalization given the quirk of human hearing that volume changes cause non-uniform changes in perceived volume at different frequencies, but I don't know how to explain the fact that the dynamic range in the material affects the desired equalization.  Does this also have a simple explanation?  (If the answer is "no", I will just take your word for it.)

  • 0
    Avatar
    Sergey

    Has understood that at me old model! To choose Plane Audyssey, I can't? In films all устаривает, but in music I do not want to lose high frequencies!

Article is closed for comments.