Subwoofer setup and MultEQ

Many powered subwoofers have controls that are set manually.  It's important to follow some simple guidelines to avoid having these controls interfere with proper subwoofer calibration and integration with the satellite speakers.

  1. If the subwoofer provides a direct input (sometimes called LFE input) then it should always be used.  That input bypasses the filters in the subwoofer and allows the bass management system in the AV Receiver to operate properly
  2. If there is no direct input, then the lowpass filter knob on the subwoofer should be permanently set to the highest frequency it allows.  That way it will not interfere with the MultEQ measurements and bass management
  3. The level control on the subwoofer is often set too high.  This can cause the AV Receiver to run out of level correction range when MultEQ tries to set the subwoofer to reference level.  Set the subwoofer level control to the midpoint.  If MultEQ reports high negative trims (e.g., –12 dB) for the subwoofer, then you should turn the level control further down and run MultEQ again
  4. If there is a Phase control on the sub it should be set to 0°

If you have a subwoofer with room EQ, then you should run that first in the subwoofer and then run MultEQ in the AVR

If you have an external subwoofer processor (such as the SVS AS-EQ1 or the Audyssey Sub Equalizer) you should run the calibration in that processor first and then run MultEQ in your AVR

If you have two subwoofers, there are some additional steps to take:
  1. Place them at equal distances from the main listening position
  2. Set the level controls on the back so they both play at the same level
  3. Connect a y-cord to the sub out of the AVR and then connect to both subs
  4. Turn off processing in the subs as it will not be able to give you the same resolution that you will get from MultEQ (thousands of points vs. a few parametric bands)
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399 Comments

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    Wayne Liptrot

    So there are 128 filter points up to 250hz. Are these fixed? If I select the crossover to be 120hz, do the 128 filter points concentrate on correcting 0-120hz? Or do I lose out correction filters because the ones 120-250hz do not get used?

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    Ollie Clark

    Thanks for the ideas guys.

    Managed to get it sorted aye. Did a lot of reading around and noticed a few people fixed problems with a reset of the amp. I tried this and it seems to have fixed the problem.

    So now I'm good to go.

    Cheers.

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    Kingyu

    Dear Chris,

    I am using Pro Kit to upgrade the AV system many times, Audyssey had done great job!

    The subwoofer (SVS PB13-U) was placed on the left close to front wall, and the graph after correction is flat (see attach 120811 Before Change). But still can hear some standing wave of 30~40Hz. The Trim is -5.5dB.

    Try to move the subwoofer forward away from front wall, around 1/3~1/4 of the distance bewteen front wall and back wall. The hearing standing wave is weaken. The graph before correction is different (see attach 120915 After Change). The Trim is -2.5dB (same subwoofer volume). But why the graph after correction is not flat with raise about 60~70Hz?

    Have I did something wrong? What can I make it better?

    Thank you very much!

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    Audyssey Labs

    I suggest using the pattern shown in the diagram.  However, move mic positions 7 and 8 forward so they are 40-50 cm from the back wall.

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    brodricr

    I have some spare channels available on my ASE. Am I better off using a y-cable on the output of the ASE to EQ 2 subs, or put the y-cable on the sub output of the AVR and EQ the subs individually on discrete ASE channels?

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Alex,

    A speaker obstructed by furniture will most certainly give bad measurements.  It's essential to have a clear path from the speaker to the mic.

    Yes, it's fine to set the tripod on the couch.

    Yes, it's a good idea to keep the minimum distance from the side walls as well.

    No, "center of the listening area" is intended to mean the center of the area where the listeners sit.  The mic should not be placed in positions that are outside the span of the front L and R speakers.

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Mark,

    The sleep/standby mode in subs is often the problem.  The first couple of Audyssey chirps may be getting corrupted as it wakes up.  I would try turning that off and then running Audyssey again.  After the calibration you can set it back on auto-sleep mode.

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    Audyssey Labs

    @Rob: I suspect you are hearing port noise, but can't be sure.  Audyssey doesn't do any bass management.  That is done by the AVR.  The difference between MultEQ XT and XT32 (please note: there is no "i" in MultEQ) is in the filter resolution.  XT32 has tens of thousands more points and will catch narrower peaks and dips in the response.  But neither will cause overdriving of the sub.

    It's possible that the filter is applying a boost that is causing more air to come out the port and cause this noise.  In general, it's better to cover the port because that will allow the sub to extend to a lower frequency rather than play louder.  Deeper is always better than louder when it comes to accurate reproduction of content.

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    chris lebel

    Chris,
    So are you saying the bass module shouldn't be connected to the receivers sub input? Where would I plug that RCA into then?

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    seb

    Hi Chris,

    I've launched a calibration and it reconagizes all my speakers but the subs. I've run it several time and always get the same results. The Audyssey generates noises that can be heard on both subs but at the end I still get "error" weither I chose a simple or a complete calibration. Can it be related to the position of the subs ? There are around 2 meters between the two subs and are both on the left side of the room.

    Are there prerequisites before a calibration ? (apart from connecting the speakers ! ;-)

    Any help is welcome.

    Thanks

    Seb

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi, Does Onkyo set your front speakers to Full Range after Audyssey is finished? If it does, then that means "don't send bass to the subwoofer".  You have to make sure they are not set to Full Range by selecting a crossover frequency for the speakers.  Unfortunately Audyssey is not allowed to make the decision about when speakers are Full Range to avoid this confusion...

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    Paul Godden

    Well its the AIX Record Audio calibration DVD that comes with the oppo Bue Disc player, the 96hz 7.1 tones Interestingly I cannot check the LFE on onboard as, like i stated, the tones test the sub channels separately. The problem seems to be when playing material from a alternate source as the two levels seem to add to each other. With the Onkyo and Audyssey does it allow for the simultaneous playing of the two sub outputs when playing an LFE track? I know when Audyssey runs through it tests in does the two seperatly

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    Pragere

    Hi Chris, I have a problem with calibrating my Onkyo TX-NR809 - this is failing with a Speaker Detect Error on the subwoofer. I have a Klipsch RW-12D, with the top sub pre-out of the Receiver connected to the Left Line In input of the subwoofer. 

    Here are the sub's settings:

    Power - 'Always On'

    EQ Mode - Flat

    Lowpass - 120 Hz

    Phase - 0 

    Please help, thanks!

     

     

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    Bryan K

    I've read in forums online that Audyssey sometimes boosts very low sub frequencies exceptionally high -- to a dangerous breaking point.  Concerned about that, in setting up my new sub on my Denon AVR 2310CI, I set Audyssey to "skip" the sub on auto setup; but after completing Audyssey and enabling the sub, Mult EQ would not work (it told me to rerun Audyssey, which is what the Denon owner's manual confirms should happen).  So I reran Audyssey with the sub as part of the test.  After completing the test, I went to check the boost for the sub on the low frequencies.  But in the Parameter Check > EQ Check menu, it only lists detailed frequency adjustments for the 5 main speakers -- no sub.  Is that because the sub is fed the low frequencies from each speaker (such that I can tell if everything's okay for the sub by looking at the lower half of the other speakers' levels)?  If not, how can I check whether the sub's parameters are at "dangerous" levels?

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    Audyssey Labs

    SubEQ HT can set up any number of subwoofers.  It's completely scalable.  But, for it to do that the manufacturer of the AVR has to allow individual time and level control of each sub.  So far none have allowed this for more than two subs.

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    Santo Budi

    You mean by setting the filter knob to the highest frequency is like to disable the sub doing the bass management. So is this similar using the LFE input compare with using the standard inputs, in other words using one of those 2 inputs doesn't effect the bass output.  That's why you said the best subwoofer is the one that produces the lowest bass extension!

    Thanks Chris. 

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Subu, You need a MultEQ Pro enabled AVR.  Please contact techsupport@audyssey.com for information on how to purchase the kit.

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Michali,

    The dual 14" will play lower than the single 15".  If you have them connected via y-cord then Audyssey is making a single filter for both and this could cause problems for the 15" sub.  How are they connected?

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    Greg Giddens

    Thank you for your reply

    I am attaching the REL R305 manual, it shows what the sub does. The sub has a base management system in it, hopefully this will help clear up the questions that I have

    Thank you

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi John,

    I believe what your friend is talking about is the sloped walls.  They do help in avoiding parallel surfaces and the reflections they cause.  So he's right!

    I wouldn't worry about the blinds on the skylight for two reasons: (1) it's above the listening area and so no first reflections from the speakers hit it and (2) most problems in small rooms are at low frequencies and so the curtains/blinds don't have any effect on those.

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    Audyssey Labs

    There can be a couple reasons for this:

    1. Measurement locations.  All measurements must be taken even if there is only one listener.  Mic pattern to follow is shown here. If the mic is placed too far off to the side then resulting sound can be bright because of natural tweeter response roll off.

    2. Target curve. Audyssey recommends the Reference curve that includes a high frequency roll off designed to translate studio conditions to home listening.  If you are using Flat, then there may be too much high frequency content especially for movies.

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    Matthew Roy Nakata

    Alex I have the pro cinema 600 from definitive technologies. Would that help me decide ?

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    Bill Sokoloski

    Sub Equalizer Connections (page 10 of the setup manual for Audyssey Sub Equalizer) are confusing. The diagram show everything and does not explain what not to hook up if you have the Audyssey Pro Kit. I have done this 2x now and still get lost. I have Audyssey Sub EQ and Integra DHC 9.9 with Pro insalled. I got the Pro Kit to do it all myself and a new diargam of hookups using the Pro Kit would be helpful to those who are not professional installers. When running the Sub EQ do I still have to connect 1a to 1b? And when running the Pro in Integra, do I still leave this cable hooked up?

     

    Bill

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    patrick hansson

    The HSU has controls on the back, the Paradigm does not. I have talked to someone at HSU and they believe that the Paradigm "rolls off the highs pretty quickly. It sounds like I have deeper bass after adding the Hsu. The Hsu is the sub that is bottoming out.

    Why can I not go into the settings for Audyssey and look at what it is doing with the Sub? I check settings for all the other speakers, but not the sub.

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    maelje

    Hi,

     

    Just wanted to say thanks for the great information on this site. My new Denon 3312 AVR has Audyssey. I was puzzled as to why I was getting -12 trim on my subwoofer. With my old receiver (also a Denon, but several years old), I always set my Polk sub's volume at about 1 o'clock. Doing that on the new system resulted in the -12 setting, and not enough presence from the sub. Followed instructions here -- actually, I set the Polk 450 to 11 o'clock on the volume knob rather than midpoint. Still ended up with a -7 trim setting, but what a difference in sound! Output is excellent - balanced but powerful. Thanks again!

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    Audyssey Labs

    I don't think you would get good results by putting the sub in the closet.  Maybe just moving it forward 20-30 cm will change the room mode enough to make a difference in the level.  

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    Alex0925

    Hi Chris,

    Going back to the following comment you made:

    @Kevon: ... You should always, always, always take all the available measurements regardless of the size of the room. It's not a matter of placing the mic in every seat.** The algorithm needs to collect data from the listening area** and the recommended mic placement is shown here. March 25, 2012 08:13 am.

    In the room correction setup section my Onkyo TX-SR 707 manual says:

    Next:

    Select "Next" to begin measuring the next measurement position...

    Finish (Calculate):

    Select this if you don't want to measure any more listening positions and are ready to calculate the results, then go to step 8.

    Having taken measurements at all 6 positions, rather than just 3, I achieved a tremendous improvement in sound quality with much smoother, deeper bass and more expanded soundstage.

    Now, please, tell me, why the heck did Onkyo provide for the option to skip the remaining 4th, 5th and 6th measurement after the third one is complete, wasn't that section of manual written on the basis of Audyssey setup instructions? The language saying "if you don't want to measure any more listening positions" is extremely misleading in this context as when setting the system up in a small room like mine one would quite logically use this option and skip the remaining 4th, 5th and 6th measurements, which results, as now I have compared, in much poorer quality sound. Maybe the point of the absolute requirement to "always, always, always taking all the available measurements" should be stressed by Audyssey to AVR manufacturers, as well as in this forum's setup recommendations somehow? Any comments on that?

    Best regards,

    Alex

     

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    Vivek Ramchander

    Small correction to my comment above:

    >> On the 2113 with supplied ACM1HB mic: With the sub volumes unchanged, they both calibrated individually to -1.5db! (i.e -1.5db less that on the 1911) Together, they calibrated to -2db!

     

    That should have read:

    On the 2113 with supplied ACM1HB mic: With the sub volumes unchanged, they both calibrated individually to -1.5db! (i.e 3db less that on the 1911) Together, they calibrated to -2db!

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Chris,

    It's inaccurate to measure the subwoofer level with an SPL meter.  MultEQ uses a spectral method that produces much more accurate level measurements.  I don't think you are doing anything incorrectly.

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    Audyssey Labs

    Hi Bob,

    If you wish to use the calibration systems in any of the subs, you should do that first before running Audyssey. Please be aware that digital processing in the subs introduces additional signal delay.  So, when you run MultEQ the reported delays/distances for such subs will be longer than the physical distance.  This is normal and is part of the correction that MultEQ performs to make sure that signals from all speakers and subs are arriving at the main listening position at the same time.

    Audyssey recommends sending the same signal to all three subs.  This can be achieved with y-cords out of one sub output on the AVP-A1HDCI or by setting the Subwoofer mode to "Mix".

    It is not a good idea to use the LFE+Main mode.  That mode sends the bass to both the subs and the speakers and often leads to improper responses in the overlap region.  We recommend to always set the subs in LFE mode in the pre-pro or AVR. 

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