Speaker Trim Levels

Trim levels are just relative numbers. There is nothing wrong (or different) about negative trims. The point of calibrating levels is to (1) achieve the same level for every speaker and (2) play at film reference when the master volume is at 0.

If the speakers have high sensitivity, or are close to the listening position (or both) then the trim levels will show up negative to achieve the goals mentioned above. It's not a good idea to change the trims because that will throw off the Dynamic EQ calibration. If you want the system to play louder just turn up the master volume.

SPL meters need calibration so it's possible that there is enough discrepancy between the meter and the Audyssey mic to show different readings. Also, the internal test noise of the AVR is a slightly different way of calculating level than what Audyssey does using psychoacoustic weighting of the measured response.

In any case, it's not a huge deal to change the trims if you feel the need to (keeping in mind the implications on Dynamic EQ). The most important part of Audyssey--the filters--are not affected by trim levels.

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20 Comments

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    CÜNEYT OCAKLILAR

    After calibration I see that my speakers set to Large, and I set them to Small and set the crossover frequency to 80Hz as suggested. But I wonder one thing. I see that also the 63 Hz were calibrated for all of my speakers. So, as my crossover is 80Hz, won't these 63 Hz calibration values used any more?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    The crossover frequency is not a steep cut off.  It gently rolls off below that to blend properly with the subwoofer response.

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    Dave Comeau

    On another audio forum, a lot of folks have mentioned that they believe in cases where Audssey sets the trim level all the way down(-12 db on my AVR and a lot of others) Audyssey loses some effectiveness, though no one is very specific on why that is or what form it takes. This is in a thread for very high efficiency speakers and this trim level is often reached with amps with a high gain. Some people have reported improvement with, and recommended the use of, line attenuators to get the trim boosted. This was noted both for speaker and sub channels. Can you comment on this?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Dave,

    The most important part of Audyssey are the correction filters.  These are completely unaffected by the speaker level settings.  They don't even look at them...  gotta love the internet though :-)

    The –12 dB limit is in the hardware.  If you hit it then you may not be setting the speaker levels to be the same as is required for level calibration.  This happens if the speakers have high efficiency or if they are very close.  Attenuators can definitely help reduce the level so the AVR has enough range to make level adjustments.

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    Roddis Larsen

    I have a Onkyo 3008. When I check my levels with SPL meter after calibration it reads 70db with the built in pink noise, shouldn`t it be 75db? Does it really matter?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    There are often differences in the readings that come from (1) microphone calibration of the SPL meter; (2) Audyssey microphone calibration; (3) slight difference in mic location during measurements.  We generally trust the Audyssey mic calibration more and recommend leaving the levels as they are.  

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    DUCLAIR

    i have a problem with subwoofer level:

    after calibration level of my subwoofer is very low.

     

    when i start the calibration, i put the volume on subwoofer to get 75db;

    during calibration the volume of the sub is very low compared to other speakers.

    after the calibration, listening audio tracks, i feel that subwoofer volume is low.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    The sub test signal will always sound lower because human perception is much less sensitive in that region.  The mic is measuring it correctly.  The sub level is being set to match the other speakers as they calibrated in the studio.  If you want higher-than-reference bass you can simply turn up the subwoofer level in the AVR speaker setup menu.

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    DUCLAIR

    Hello Chris,

    today i verified level after calibration with test signal.

    Level of subwoofer is set to -7db compared to other speakers.... why?

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    CÜNEYT OCAKLILAR

    I am getting the same low levels with subwoofer which never satisfies me. Comparing it with direct mode and I am having to increase the level of the subwoofer by 3-4 dB to be pleased.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    @DUCLAIR: The level that Audyssey sets for the subwoofer will depend on where the analog volume control is set on the subwoofer itself.  There is only one correct subwoofer level setting if you are interested in listening to the same calibration they use in the studio. So, if you turn down the subwoofer volume control then Audyssey will find a higher level setting for it.  

    @ CÜNEYT: Audyssey is calibrating to reference.  If you have a personal preference for higher-than-reference bass then it's a simple matter to change it.  Personal preference can't be predicted with measurements.

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    ashfaq hussain

    Hi Chris,

    i have pure acoustic proxima 60 speakers system with denon 2113 avr, i have run the auddesey and it has set my front speakers to large, center and surround to small, the cross over for center and surround is 60HZ , can i change to fronts to small after the setup and set the crossover to 60 HZ for fronts as they are down to 39HZ, 80 HZ for center as they are down to 60HZ and 100 HZ for surrounds as they are down to 65 HZ, is it gona make any change in my auddesy setup, also my woofer have een set to -12DB, should i run the auddesey again and change the volume level on subwoofer to bring it upto -9 0r -8DB? please help me.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi,

    Audyssey doesn't set speakers to Large.  Denon does.  We recommend that you set speakers to Small if you have a sub.  Yes, change them to Small by setting a crossover as you mention.  It doesn't have an effect on the filters.

    Your subwoofer is turned up too loud.  You need to turn it down and run Audyssey again so that you don't hit the AVR limit of level adjustment.  Any number other than –12 dB is fine.

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    ashfaq hussain

    Thanks Chris,

    Can you just recommend the best crossover for all speakers as I have mention above. And also igot a phase on the back of subwoofer which is set to normal, because the subwoofer is sitting on right hand next to front right speaker and facing front. 

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    I can't confirm the crossovers remotely.  They are based on the measurements in your room!  The same speaker in another room might have a different roll off.  

    Subwoofer phase should control not be used (Normal or off).

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    ashfaq hussain

    Thanks Chris,

    well i have set my crossover 90 for fronts 100 for center and 110 for surrounds, it sounds really well, and phase is on normal. so i guess i am done with the setup, and its a new home theatre so it may sounds different after 15 to 20 hours.

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    Jeff moccio

    Hi Chris I have a Denon 1613. I run Audyssey and double check trim levels with my spl. I found my rear left channel is 2 db louder than the rest. I am trying to figure out how to adjust that speaker but I can't with Audyssey on and turning Audyssey off allows adjustment but does not take affect with Audyssey turned back on. This is all new to me as I just got this to replace my old sony (about 9yrs). Any ideas? I sit close to this speaker and I find it over powering the other channels sometimes.

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Hi Jeff,

    You can easily adjust the speaker levels in the Setup Menu.  You don't have to turn Audyssey off to do that.  The menu is shown on p. 95 of the manual.

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    Dbeistel

    Hello Chris,

    If the trim levels are at -12db and you do a 6 position calibration and save the data; if you go back in and match the SPL levels with the side surrounds will this affect the filter calibrations during the initial calibration?

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    Chris Kyriakakis

    Changing the speaker levels has no effect on the filters.

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